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Tipping shafts makes them play how much stiffer?

 pierso2 ·  
pierso2pierso2 Shooters ShootMembers  2605WRX Points: 39Handicap: 4Posts: 2,605 Titanium Tees
Joined:  in WRX Club Techs #1
Exactly what the title says...if a driver shaft is tipped .5" how much stiffer would it play? Say 1 inch or 2 inches? I'm hoping to take a stiff shaft and make it a Stiff+ since my swing speed is between stiff and extra stiff.
Posted:
Option 1
Ping G400 LST 8.5 Tour-X
Callaway Big Bertha 816 Alpha 16 AD-DI 8x black
Nike VR Pro 3 hybrid project x 6.0
Adams XTD Forged 4-PW Fujikura MCI 120S
Adams MB2 GW
Callaway Mac Daddy Forged 60
Toulon Garage Atlanta Black Pearl
Ping 4 Series Tour Edition White/ Bridgestone 2014 Tour Bag

Option 2
Taylormade 2016 M1 10.5 Whiteboard Flowerband 7x
16 Taylormade M1 5 wood AD-TP 7s
Ping Anser 20 stock stiff
Taylormade 2016 M2 Tour XP105 stiff
Cleveland RTX 2.0 52 deg raw
Titleist Vokey Prototype 58 T Grind
Carbon Ringo Raw Whisky

http://www.gamegolf.com/player/pierso2
1

Comments

  • GolfrnutGolfrnut Members  7646WRX Points: 464Posts: 7,646 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #2
    Shafts can differ a bit, jump, or stay flat sometimes when tipping...so a lot of times it just depends on the shaft. Some may not change at all for the first 1/2", some may jump.<br />
    <br />
    A general rule of thumb is about 1/8" to 1 CPM.
    Posted:
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    Taylormade P790 2 UDI w/ DG 105R or M3 19* 5W w/ BB S+ 70
    Taylormade P790 3 Iron w/ DG AMT White R300
    4-PW Nike VR Pro MBs w/ DG AMT White R300
    Callaway MD3 52* & 58* PM grind
    Odyssey MXM 1W
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  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers  25593WRX Points: 1,961Posts: 25,593 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Feb 24, 2015 #3
    As already mentioned it can vary a lot based on both the original bend profile of the shaft and a persons swing characteristics, but a common over generalized rule of thumb that is used is 1/2" of tipping is about 1/3rd of a flex. However, that's not really all that accurate since tipping really only predominantly impacts the tip stiffness of the shaft and doesn't really impact the stiffness over the full bend profile like a true flex change would.<br />
    <br />
    The reality is that the first 1/2" of tipping is rarely even noticeable from the standpoint of a change in feel. If you are looking for a particular feel from the shaft, trial and error will be the only way to find it. You might start with 3/4" or possibly even a full inch depending on how "soft" it feels to you untipped.
    Posted:
  • BigEarlBigEarl Members  61WRX Points: 25Handicap: YesPosts: 61 Bunkers
    Joined:  #4
    Related to this, what has more impact on the spin rate? Choosing a stiffer flex or tipping the softer shaft? I know that results are different for different players regarding transition, tempo and when they release. But regarding most driver shafts parallel section is 3 inches, could it have more impact on spin tipping a stiff shaft, lets say 1,5" than choosing the same shaft (in the same weight) in x-stiff untipped? What would be the difference feel wise, could i get a softer playing shaft with less spin? Or is it not possible to compare?
    Posted:
    TM M1 460 9.5 Hzrdus 6.5
    TM M2 Fairway 15° Speeder 757 Evo X
    Titleist 714AP2 4-9 DG X100
    Vokey SM5 46°, 52°, 58° DG X100
    Cameron Studio Select NP2

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  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers  25593WRX Points: 1,961Posts: 25,593 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #5
    It's an interesting question. It is hard to generalize as an increase in flex does not necessarily mean a uniform increase in stiffness over the whole bend profile and also how much even the tip sections can increase with a change in flex can vary quite a bit between different shafts. However in most cases, I would expect going up in flex to have more impact for those players with the applicable swing characteristics. The tip section might be a bit more dominant in the influence but the entire shaft does contribute to the effect and I'm not sure if even 1.5" of tipping would get the tip section close to a tip section of the next higher flex - but could be wrong about that. Shafts are now available in such a wide range and variations of bend profiles, the need to tip a shaft to find a good fit is not nearly what it used to be and not as much hard core data has been collected (that I'm aware of) on the exact influence of tipping has on the bend profile.
    Posted:
  • pierso2pierso2 Shooters Shoot Members  2605WRX Points: 39Handicap: 4Posts: 2,605 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #6
    Stuart G. wrote:
    <br />
    It's an interesting question. It is hard to generalize as an increase in flex does not necessarily mean a uniform increase in stiffness over the whole bend profile and also how much even the tip sections can increase with a change in flex can vary quite a bit between different shafts. However in most cases, I would expect going up in flex to have more impact for those players with the applicable swing characteristics. The tip section might be a bit more dominant in the influence but the entire shaft does contribute to the effect and I'm not sure if even 1.5" of tipping would get the tip section close to a tip section of the next higher flex - but could be wrong about that. Shafts are now available in such a wide range and variations of bend profiles, the need to tip a shaft to find a good fit is not nearly what it used to be and not as much hard core data has been collected (that I'm aware of) on the exact influence of tipping has on the bend profile.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    The reason I ask is because a buddy of mine has an elements chrome that he had installed in his 3 wood that he said he doesn't like. I was informed that it was tipped 1.25" and I'm wondering if that would be more of an X or a S+ when changed into a driver shaft. I know I'll need to extend it to get a driver length but I thought that because it was a stiff to start that tipping the shaft 1.25" would make it S+ but now I'm thinking it would turn more into X even after it is extended. UST's website says to tip it for a 3 wood you only need to remove 1". So it seems to me that right now it plays around an S+ in a 3 wood length. But if I brought it to a driver length, what area would it be in then?
    Posted:
    Option 1
    Ping G400 LST 8.5 Tour-X
    Callaway Big Bertha 816 Alpha 16 AD-DI 8x black
    Nike VR Pro 3 hybrid project x 6.0
    Adams XTD Forged 4-PW Fujikura MCI 120S
    Adams MB2 GW
    Callaway Mac Daddy Forged 60
    Toulon Garage Atlanta Black Pearl
    Ping 4 Series Tour Edition White/ Bridgestone 2014 Tour Bag

    Option 2
    Taylormade 2016 M1 10.5 Whiteboard Flowerband 7x
    16 Taylormade M1 5 wood AD-TP 7s
    Ping Anser 20 stock stiff
    Taylormade 2016 M2 Tour XP105 stiff
    Cleveland RTX 2.0 52 deg raw
    Titleist Vokey Prototype 58 T Grind
    Carbon Ringo Raw Whisky

    http://www.gamegolf.com/player/pierso2
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers  25593WRX Points: 1,961Posts: 25,593 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #7
    For the 3wd, that extra 1/4" is actually fairly trivial. However, the problem is that your thinking of flex as a 1 dimensional quantity and it really isn't. You can't really equate a change to just the tip section to an increase in stiffness throughout the entire length of the shaft (which is about what a change in flex is). What you have is a shaft where most of it is still really still a stiff and only a part has been made more stiff. How this translated to feel is going to be dependent on your swing and your particular sensitivities to the loading/unloading of the shaft. For most who have a sensitivity to the feel it will certainly feel different than either a stiff or an x-stiff but some people will try it and say it still feels more like a stiff than an x-stiff, others may find it feels more like an x-stiff and others will say it feels like a completely different shaft and not close to either.
    Posted:
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  • stealthrt91stealthrt91 Members  1696WRX Points: 105Handicap: 12Posts: 1,696 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Feb 24, 2015 #8
    You have to take into account the OEM trimming specs as well. Example, I play a good amount of OBAN shafts and usually tip them 1-1.5". I personally notice no difference in flex, only ball flight. I trim all my fairways 1.5" (Drivers 1" and Hybrids 1") and it brings the ball flight down for me to what I want. Per their instructions:<br />
    <br />
    Standard Performance: 0"<br />
    Stiffer Performance: .5"<br />
    Tour Performance: 1.0"<br />
    Max Tipping: 2.7" <br />
    <br />
    So as you can see, me trimming 1.5" isn't much compared to the 2.7" max.
    Posted:
    M4 D-Type 10.5* - NV 2KXV 65 Green
    M6 Rocket 14* - X-Tortion Copper 60
    M6 19* - X-Tortion Copper 60
    P790 (4-GW) - DG105
    Milled Grind Bronze 55.12 - DG105
    Milled Grind Hi-Toe 60.ATV - DG105
    Scotty Cameron 2014 Fastback
  • pierso2pierso2 Shooters Shoot Members  2605WRX Points: 39Handicap: 4Posts: 2,605 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #9
    Stuart G. wrote:
    <br />
    For the 3wd, that extra 1/4" is actually fairly trivial. However, the problem is that your thinking of flex as a 1 dimensional quantity and it really isn't. You can't really equate a change to just the tip section to an increase in stiffness throughout the entire length of the shaft (which is about what a change in flex is). What you have is a shaft where most of it is still really still a stiff and only a part has been made more stiff. How this translated to feel is going to be dependent on your swing and your particular sensitivities to the loading/unloading of the shaft. For most who have a sensitivity to the feel it will certainly feel different than either a stiff or an x-stiff but some people will try it and say it still feels more like a stiff than an x-stiff, others may find it feels more like an x-stiff and others will say it feels like a completely different shaft and not close to either.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    So it'll be a lower launching stiff is what you're saying? Making it more of a low flight as opposed to the original mid-flight that it started as?
    Posted:
    Option 1
    Ping G400 LST 8.5 Tour-X
    Callaway Big Bertha 816 Alpha 16 AD-DI 8x black
    Nike VR Pro 3 hybrid project x 6.0
    Adams XTD Forged 4-PW Fujikura MCI 120S
    Adams MB2 GW
    Callaway Mac Daddy Forged 60
    Toulon Garage Atlanta Black Pearl
    Ping 4 Series Tour Edition White/ Bridgestone 2014 Tour Bag

    Option 2
    Taylormade 2016 M1 10.5 Whiteboard Flowerband 7x
    16 Taylormade M1 5 wood AD-TP 7s
    Ping Anser 20 stock stiff
    Taylormade 2016 M2 Tour XP105 stiff
    Cleveland RTX 2.0 52 deg raw
    Titleist Vokey Prototype 58 T Grind
    Carbon Ringo Raw Whisky

    http://www.gamegolf.com/player/pierso2
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers  25593WRX Points: 1,961Posts: 25,593 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #10
    Yes. Still mostly a stiff with a very slight increase in tip stiffness. For a half inch tipping, It might lower the flight a little if you have a late enough release and fast enough swing speed. Might show up on an LM but not sure it would generally be enough to notice visually for most players.
    Posted:
  • Titliestjunkie1127Titliestjunkie1127 Members  17WRX Points: 9Posts: 17 Bunkers
    Joined:  #11

    I want to take a reg flex driver shaft and turn it into a stiff plus 4 wood shaft. Would an 1.5 suffice or at least get me close. The shaft is a great shaft but seeing it is a reg flex I have no use for it as I hit x stiff but don’t mind going to a stiffer stiff flex in my fairway wood. Any thoughtS????

    Posted:
  • Howard_JonesHoward_Jones Members  11645WRX Points: 2,300Posts: 11,645 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #12

    No that cant be done, we cant make a R flex to become as stiff as its S flex brother of the same model, thats only possible on shafts made as MULTIFLEX and they are marked R/S and have a very long tip section. IF we use butt CPM as measurement, we count 10 CPM as 1 full flex, and most graphite shafts only respond with 1 CPM for each 2/8" of tip trim, so 1.5" tip trim is about half a flex only, but we alter the profile and feel and we might end up with a very different animal all depending on that shafts EI profile.

    So that R flex can be R+ as the most, so if the model is known for you, start from S of use a different shaft.

    Its NO standards for how strong R or S flex is, thats not what those letters is telling us, they can only be used for compare within its own model and weight series.

    Posted:

    PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME PMs ON CLUB TECH ISSUES - ASK PUBLIC IN THE FORUM.

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  • Fujikura GolfFujikura Golf Sponsors  381WRX Points: 345Posts: 381 Greens
    Joined:  #13

    1" tipping is one full flex in our products, so 10 CPM stiffer. Hope this helps.

    Posted:
  • Trying4BetterTrying4Better Members  237WRX Points: 87Handicap: 13Posts: 237 Fairways
    Joined:  edited Aug 11, 2020 4:20pm #14

    Okay, confused a bit. Read above and club builders saying it wont make it play stiffer, only change ball flight.

    And, that's awesome for you guys chiming in! Would love to understand better why it does affect flex, or 10 CPM. Is it because of how your company designs shafts, or is this true of most OEMs? Thanks!

    Posted:

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